tv MONEY With Melissa Francis FOX Business October 8, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT
on the markets. last declining minutes of trading we saw the market go down even further. clearly they are bothered by current negotiations. liz: volatility index was above 20. "money" with melissa francis is next. melissa: i'm melissa francis and here what's "money" tonight. warren buffett is in a bind. the billionaire rolling up his sleeves to fix benjamin moore after the ceo of the paint giant abruptly quit. is this about buffett's young female protege? this is all the word on wall street. we have the inside story. plus unone week to the day your new health care life began. turns out the numbers are worse than we thought. we'll tell you what the government doesn't really want to you know. "who made money today?" he took a beating on his pet project but the sun is shining on his wallet. you think you know who it is? we'll let you find out. even when they say it not it is
always about money melissa: straight to the back room story tonight. the whispers are focused on the biggest wall street titan of them all, warren buffett. the "oracle of omaha" himself. he is known for not micromanaging companies he buys but insiders are warning that his 29-year-old protege, tracy britt is stirring the pot at benjamin more owned by berkshire hathaway of the it is all the word on wall street. here with the juicy details, "the wall street journal" ahead of the tape columnist, spencer jacob and jonas fax ferris. welcome to both of you. this is unusual situation for buffett. he is very hands off when he buys this company. now he has the young woman who has gone inside the company and is representing him, abruptly you see the ceo quit. pretty much after very short tenure. there is lot of buzz about it.
what is going on? >> we don't really know what is going on because it is not a very transparent company. berkshire hathaway is not transparent in a sense what is going on in the back room. obviously was displeased with something. this guy had not been ceo for very long. the former ceo was gone as well. his protege is only 20 nine years old. chairman of benjamin moore and similar company with combined over $4 billion of sales. clearly she didn't like the direction the company is going. there is nothing to say there is anything in terms of a personality clash going on but it is possible because you put a 29-year-old woman in charge after old-line, male-dominated company and conflicts could have arisen. melissa: if you look the way it has been described, jonas, this is a woman who graduated from harvard business school in 2009. inciders say she quote, swooped in last summer. after buffett had fired the former ceo. they described her as hyper organized, very no-nonsense.
everyone was initially impressed or at least hopeful about the situation. at the very least, insiders are, you know, leaking to the press negative things about this woman and her relationship inside the company. what do you think? >> it definitely smell pass little suspicious except i don't think buffett would do something like this. this is pretty young woman and most companies have owned by young men. they don't like people telling them what to do. they don't like it when hedge fund managers do it when 40 or 50. because she is young and pretty. this boss would like only in this company running things because she has the office next to buffett and he is a on old man. i don't think that is how buffett operates. his track record shows he doesn't operate like that. he wouldn't putter in front of four companies to throw her a favor. i think this old paint company needs to be shaken up with young people but it is not a tech company. iting unusual to have young
people calling shots. melissa: still, this was a ceo that he had put in place after he got rid of the original ceo when he took over the company. this was bob merit. turned around outback steakhouse. not tracy britt. we're talking about bob merritt. left suddenly. 61 years old. couldn't be confirmed why he left. he was the pick to go in and turn it around after the work he had done at outback. he is abruptly out. they say the next guy will be here any minute. sound like it is not the normal roughing of feathers that goes on with warren buffett -- ruffling. >> it's a myth he hands-off. melissa: it a myth? >> if look at operating history that not always the case. he is always ready to get rid of people. if he buy as company controlled by a family or somebody there aa long time they feel comfortable silling to him because he likes to keep people in place and
della gait. he has been quick to cut people who do things that displease him. spending large amounts of money he wasn't happy spending or taking things in a strategic direction or being unethical. so he is actually, he's not called the best manager in america for nothing. you do have to be aware of what is going on in this case he delegated the responsibility to someone who half to be half of the ceo's age, less than half of is age. it may have been a source of conflict but may be something specifically for the company. the company is not doing very well. melissa: absolutely. i want to pick up on that point, jonas. there is situation he came in and saw value that wasn't being exploited at time. this is company, dealers were saying that benjamin moore was using intimidation tactics. they were yanking inventory, financing arbitrarily. demanding payment force advertising programs that never materialized. these were vendors unhappy with benjamin moore at the time. this company was in trouble and in trouble and under duress.
he saw an investment opportunity and wouldn't be surprising he is making changes. >> they never discounted aura of paint i like but that is side story. buffett is not always about alcoa and coca-cola and buying long-term things. he made $10 billion during the short term crisis deals. if there is investment opportunity he will look things to make money quickly, not over 20 or 30 years. this kind of a management shift is what you're trying to do is turn around a company going nowhere or slowly disappearing. it is kind of radical. doesn't sound like normal buffett investment. we're familiar with the coca-cola stuff. there is history of other dealings. melissa: do you think he is comfortable with all the gossip swirling around this and this situation and this young woman that he has brought in? she is 29 years old and she is coming in as, you know, his right hand gal to turn around this company. it is 130-year-old company.
these are very senior ceos. she is coming in and ruffling feathers. we're speculating about it. it is picking up and the post gossiping about it. it reach ad gossiping level. he is not a gossip type of guy. go ahead. >> how long have they criticized berkshire hathaway? criticism has been 15 years all old people running it and they will die some day and what will we do as investors. melissa: good point the 29-year-old at least we don't have to worry investors at berkshire hathaway if the manager is good. they have a long tenure. melissa: if she wasn't young and long blond hair with woe talk about this story? >> we wouldn't but you don't get into harvard business school with long blond hair necessarily. melissa: go ahead. >> if you're 83 years old almost everybody at the company will be half your age or less and half are female. to his credit he brought someone in young and female. i think it is not fair to cast
aspersions. you could hire someone less good-looking. you hired, i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. he is a businessman first and foremost and he hired someone who is competent and happens to be a lot younger than him and opposite sex. i don't see anything, it is silly to assume anything else. melissa: okay. gentlemen, thank you so much. next on "money," mark cuban dealing with some tough plays in court but looks from it he could be on track to lose this game. we have all the latest details from those in the know. one week and counting, not the shutdown, the health care law. have you signed up yet? seems like no one else did either. we have a progress report you have to hear. more "money" coming up. howdy partner.
oh, you'd be going twice as fast if you had double miles. [ male announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one nture card. freeze! don't touch the face! can i drive? absolutely not. what's in your wallet? absolutely not. if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and man, you know how that feels. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine.
other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. melissa: from one billionaire to another, a tough day in court for mark cuban. a federal judge turning down cuban's request to dismiss the government's insider trading case against him. that is not all. during his second day of rough questioning cuban contradicted himself about a key phone conversation that is absolutely crucial to the sec's case against him. things not looking so good for
cuban. with me former federal prosecutor fred tecce and "the wall street journal"'s james freeman. gentlemen, thanks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. melissa: fred, i want to start with you. it all hinges on the conversation with the ceo of the company he was investing in allegedly told him that they were about to make a secondary offering and that would totally dilute his stake and he went on and sold his shares. that is what the government i saying happened. >> right. melissa: the contradiction came in because cuban said, first, the phone conversation happened nine years ago. he doesn't remember anything about it. he doesn't remember hearing that this ceo tell him, you know, this is confidential information that i'm going to tell you. you can't trade on it but by the way we're about to dilute the hell out of you tomorrow. he doesn't remember that. the ceo said, cuban said, now, i'm screwed. i can't sell. >> right. melissa: cuban said no way i said that i absolutely didn't say that. if he doesn't remember the conversation how does know he didn't say that. is he in trouble? >> well, he is in big trouble.
for a couple reasons, when you say i don't remember, you can't turn around and say i didn't say that the argument to the jury in closing argument or the whatever the guy is name is, yeah, whatever it is, told you what happened during the conversation and mr. cuban told you that he didn't remember. so it is not a he said/she said, and it is he said and he said i don't remember. the problem with cuban he has twofold. i will make it quick. the second one the whole thing about the sec is beating up on me. that is the defense. the problem when you try cases to a jury, this thing about beating up on me, if he had a good solid legal defense and factual defense that would be a good thing to help him. without that and testimony he doesn't remember, looks like i'm getting beat up on and looks like he is deflecting attention and avoid responsibility. melissa: james freeman i didn't know you used to work at sec. i'm absolutely terrified with you because i don't know what connections you have. setting all this aside, it's a
phone conversation that happened nine years ago. there is no recording of it. their whole case hinges on the fact he was told, you know, we're about to dilute you tomorrow and he sold. there is no tape recording. so i think in spite of what fred just said it is he said, he said. no one can prove what he said on the call. >> it's a he said, he said. keep in mind mr. cuban also acknowledged that he did not answer accurately to the sec originally when he said it was actually his broker who controlled that account. melissa: that's a good point. >> now he acknowledged that actually he controlled it. so it is a lot of money. a few hundred million bucks even for a guy like him that's a big deal. melissa: fred, he saved himself the loss of $750,000 might seem like chump change seems all the trouble. >> wouldn't cover caviar on his yacht of the i don't get it. melissa: i will tell you, they're saying the fine could be somewhere $2 million. >> correct. $3 million. melissa: he is worth 2.5 billion. he says this is about principle.
that he is being persecuted. he didn't do anything wrong. that is why he is fighting it. if he were your client what would you tell him right now. >> i tell him what i tell all my clients. principle will run you triple. melissa: that's a good line. >> the bottom line is this. he is trying to stand up and i think in the back of his mind, i think he is relying upon his celebrity status. position as owner of the mavericks. position on reality shows. what anything taught me done the stuff, the jury will put that aside and base it upon what they have seen. his testimony doesn't really help him. the government's case is tough by any stretch of the imagination. it turns on a phone call. he is not an insider other than result of the phone call. it's a uphill battle. this is why these cases go to the trial. if it was a slam dunk for government or for him he would have settled a long-time ago. >> that point he is not a insider and not a fiduciary. >> correct. >> it is not clear if the jury decides that he is not been
entirely truthful that he is going to be found liable. i like that he is doing a public service, making the sec go to trial. that will help us determine what exactly insider trading is. it has been very vague in the law. melissa: that is a good point. >> it is. it is. melissa: he is not an insider. how could he be guilty of insider trading. he accept ad phone call from the ceo of the company. so what? >> you can hold people like that outsiders if they're law calls a tippee. if they got information they shouldn't have had. i'm not sure you couldn't argue it was information he wasn't entitled to and given concerns that he would blast him in his blog. so again, you know, he may have violate ad confidentiality agreement. even if the sec wins, if i'm his lawyers i'm arguing to the 11th circuit court of appeal, maybe he violate ad confidentiality agreement but doesn't make him insider trader
from the 34 act. melissa: is may not help him that he is celebrity. he is incredibly wealthy. owner of the dallas mavericks. has a popular show of "shark tank", where he stakes people in new businesses. could it hurt him? does that make him less likeable to the jury that he is loaded swagger guy we're watching swagger across the screen right now? >> it can depending how he acts in front of the jury. melissa: what do you think? does that help him or hurt him? >> i think, probably hurt him at the margin would be my guess but on the other hand, another thing he can bring up is, where are the victims? that isals issue win cider trading. i don't know if this is the time to editorialize how it could give us more accurate stock prices. it's a problem in these trials where they will have a tough time saying he harmed people and here is th that was harmed. melissa: that is interesting. that's a great point. thanks to both of you. we will keep an eye on that. >> thank you. melissa: a lot of important law. coming up on "money," after all the tile and money spent to sell
us obamacare how is it going a week in let's say our economy could be probably better spent. plus sean eagan of eagan jones rating company will give us the real story on why no one is downgrading us on the looming default. the reason might surprise you. do you ever have too much money? we'll be right back. [ bagpipes and drums playing over ] [ music transitions to rock ] make it happen with the all-new fidelity active trader pro. it's one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. get 200 free trades when you open an account. customer erin swenson ordebut they didn't fit.line
customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches?
i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally.
>> we're going to do a challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie ever made [laughter] and you are going to try to sign up for obamacare and we'll see which happens first. >> okay. melissa: boy, he is only guy that could get away with that, right? on to obamacare and almost laughable numbers we're seeing for how many people actually signed up.
i say almost laughable when you follow the money and think about huge of yours has gone into fighting for and set being up the system it is actually not funny. even if you don't like the new health care law, you will still be staggered by the stats we have. ben is an independent insurance broker. he is here to break down the numbers. now, ben, i wanted to have you on the show because you don't have a dog in this fight. you are not political. your business is about helping small businesses sign up for the best health care plan they have. so you have been in the system comparing what is out there and what have you found about obamacare so far? >> yeah. thank you again for having me back. i am out there in the middle of this and we also work with larger corporations and individuals. melissa: okay. >> and this is probably one of the more complicated times in american business for individuals out there purchasing health care. you know, we saw the numbers last week, that over eight million people tried to sign up. we really don't know how many of those folks had success going
into the system. it was like the "snl" skit the other night, like 1800 flowers being caught off-guard on valentine's day. melissa: right, exactly. have you actually gone in and tried to quote rates to your customers and tell them what's available in their state? >> yeah. we've had a couple individuals that were declined coverage or ridered. we went out to the exchanges last week when they first opened and trying to research their options. we still haven't been able to get on and get options needed for those folks. on the group side of things we tried to quote some group quotes for small businesses and we were able to look at rates and look at plans but we really don't, really will not have access to the quoting system until november 1st. melissa: you were able to look at rates but you weren't able to sign anyone up? >> not yet. on the group side of things, not until november 1st. it's a mess. melissa: yeah, were you able to see how the prices would compare? i asked because we had the ceo of an insurance company down in
florida on earlier and he offers insurance on both exchanges. we examined it further he was telling us, based on his company, you would get a better deal if you were on the private exchange versus the public. have you been able to look at prices and does that sound right to you, based on what you've seen? >> well, what's taken places is because of the exchanges the way they're rating different groups is, for instance, like an older individual can't be charged three times more than a 20-year-old on exchanges. that is putting pricing pressure sure on the private exchange. when groups and individuals go out and look at different, metal plans. platinum, gold, silver, bronze all the way down to a catastrophic plan. melissa: right. >> when you look at exchange rates on those higher priced plans, lower deductible, obviously higher benefits they will be as expensive or more expensive than the private marketplace. melissa: so you're saying you can get it cheaper on the private marketplace, that is the bottom line you were saying? >> yeah, exactly. melissa: interesting.
how many people in your experience do you think have already signed up? we were getting numbers from "the washington post", they're out there trying to piece it together because as you saw, i mean you've seen in news reports everywhere the administration is saying they will not release those stats yet. "the washington post" is quoting things like in connecticut, 1017 people signed up. maryland, 566. massachusetts, 209 people. rhode island, 580. do these numbers sound like they're accurate to you? >> yeah. that is just, that's a tough question but back to that point. we had some people, you know accessing exchanges, including companies like myself researching things for clients. melissa: yeah. >> we don't know if those folks were on there, they were kicked off, weren't able to get user i.d. they were researching rates. i spent a fair amount of time with some of the folks who were trying to decide whether to offer a state exchange or push the platform to the federal government. i them what keeps you up at
night? two things they mentioned were, number one we don't know if we can operate it profitably. then number two was, we don't know how we'll handle eligibility. when someone logs on do they have coverage through the employer? do they have a access to a subsidy? just that influx of individuals and how do they handle that eligibility. melissa: were you able to get a sing get person signed up for obamacare in your experience? did you get anyone signed up? >> not yet. we're still trying. we're still researching plans. melissa: what about that idea if you like your insurance and you like what you have now you can keep it? in your experience for your clients is that the case when they go get to the private exchange and can they get the plan and at the price they were buying it at? >> that's a tricky question. number one, if you're work forge a company, those one in 10 companies that will drop their plan, obviously you're not going to be able to keep the coverage you have. melissa: yeah. >> and if you are able to keep the plan you have, i can promise
you it will be a different plan and it will cost you more moving forward. melissa: ben, i salute you. you have arbitrage ad great business. a lot of people gotten into your field because we have made health care so much more tough to navigate through this process there's a business opportunity right there to help people wall the work obamacare has created. thanks for coming on the show. we appreciate it. >> it's been great. thanks for having me again. melissa: next on "money," are you wondering why no ratings agencies are downgrading the u.s. as we approach your debt ceiling stalemate? can you say vendetta? that is what agencies might be afraid of. doing nothing could actually be worse. sean eagan from egan jones joins us next. plus have you seen the awesome new benjamins yet? the fed came and dropped some off for us. we'll give you a sneak-peek just how cool they really are. "piles of money" and i mean cold hard cash, coming up. ♪
wow...look at you. i've always tried to give it my best shot. these days i'm living with a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. at first, i took warfarin, but i wondered, "could i up my game?" my doctor told me about eliquis. and three important reasons to take eliquis instead. one, in a clinical trial, eliquis was proven to reduce the risk of stroke better than warfarin. two, eliquis had less major bleeding than warfarin. and three... unlike warfarin, there's no routine blood testing. [ male announcer ] don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis ifyou have an artificial heart valve abnormal bleing. while taking eliquis, yomay bruise more easily and it m take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk
♪ melissa: on to the fight in d.c. which continues. everyone is talking about it, complaining about it. it does not seem like anyone is doing anything about it. shedding the rating and -- shouldn't the rating agencies be acting letting us know that we could be facing serious trouble? where are they afraid of? john egan from credit rating agency ian jones ratings is with us on the phone. you know, i am wondering, you like it the case of s&p, last time they come around we were about to hit the ceiling in a downgraded the debt. it was not long after that that the government filed a lawsuit against them related to negligence during the financial crisis. see you think they are hesitant to get involved this time around based on that? >> i cannot address the actions or inactions of a competitor, but certainly if you believe
floyd abrams, he is charging that they were discriminated against because of their actions in connection with the u.s. dumping. melissa: yes, you yourself by been targeted by the sec as well. you know, they have alleged in the past that you filed inaccurate documents that exaggerated your credit rating from expertise. you know, that was after you had said critical things about the government. do you think they're capable of that kind of vendetta? >> that is a question that has been debated in a number of different then use. the most outrageous example is probably initially rating the offices of fitch and s&p when they downgrade the italian government and then one of them was charged criminally because of the downgrade. but i think the more interesting
thing is where we are in this crisis and where it is going to leave the u.s. credit quality. this. melissa: absolutely. and you send hesitant about answering directly whether you think the sec is capable of a vendetta, and that of glen you because i think that they are. let's move on and talk about this current situation that is facing as. the deadline is supposed to it on the 17th. a lot of people were saying the downgrade could, at that time because that is what is supposed to be, warning letting people know that the danger is coming. how serious is it the situation? >> there are two ways of viewing the current crisis. one is to say this is a terrible case that the government should never be in a situation where it is shut down and it won't pay its bills. the other view is that this is very healthy. you need a crisis for any sort of change.
we basically have manufactured a crisis in the form of a debt ceiling in the government shut down. it at the end of this process we see some structural changes in the government, it is a net positive for credit quality, and i am talking about a reduction in the future of the deficit, the deficit has come down, so we have already made progress. if you see some changes in the unfunded liability such as the social security deficit that's is out 15 or 20 years from now, medicaid, medicare, the end result is that you have a much stronger situation for their credit quality of the country. you also have to keep in mind, melissa, the u.s. is a reserve currency and therefore has given the benefit. there is crisis. that is what typically happens. we are given the luxury that
most other countries are not. melissa: but we could be burning it. i want to ask you about the mechanics because obviously you have studied this closely. we take in $2,304,000,000,000 every week in taxes according to the cbo in order to service our debt to pay the interest on bonds. that cost $18 billion. more than enough money coming in to make those payments. the treasury secretary has said that is not how it works. we pay on a first-come first-served basis. 4 million payments per day, and it is not hard to believe that there is system set up that is automated so that they cannot pick and choose saying we will pay the interest first and everything else after. who do you believe? what is the truth? >> perhaps the system is not in place now, but perhaps the system could be adjusted fairly quickly.
i think that whether the non-payment social security obligation or nonpayment of an obligation on u.s. instruments is a bigger issue. i think the asset question, different people, different dances. ultimately the way we look at it is that there are several hurdles. first there has to be non payment of principal interest on debt. then there has to be a passive 30 days. most securities have a cure right. while that is happening it begs the question whether or not the underlying into the has the ability debate. when you get to the end of the 30 days and have a hard to of file and your default is obvious from methodologies that they have to act. have not acted now because the hope is that this is a process whereby parties are working out their differences and the end
result will be a stronger country. >> host: -- melissa: i think you are brave and a patriot. you study this closely. >> thank you. melissa: money has to be flying around the world. first the u.k. where authorities have arrested four men sit -- suggested a being significant users. the billion dollar black market offering illegal drugs and services. it was shut down by u.s. officials last week. more than three and a half million dollars in on-line currency. the founder was said to have made $80 million in just two years. not bad. on to greece or a prominent investigative journalist was on trial for violating public -- publishing lost. it contained the names of more than 2,000 wealthy greeks with swiss bank accounts.
a possible tax evasion. if found guilty the reporter could face a fine of up to two years. getting over to japan, the country's fiscal standoff, of course. the operation was to take place beginning october 15th. the cancellation comes just days after both countries agreed to modernize the defense alliance. the first time in 16 years. what is the deal with companies going public with up being profitable? every one is all aflutter over twitter. is the u.s. not making money? why are people bursting to buy end? we will debate whether it is worth it. plus, have been waiting all day to get my hands on the new hundreds. have you seen them yet? as excited as i have been in a long time and we have an all in
"spare change." the end of the day is all about these babies. ♪ mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.
your financial advisor should focus on your long-term goals, not their short-term agenda. [ woman ] if you have the nerve to believe that cookie cutters should be for cookies, not your investment strategy. if you believe in the sheer brilliance of a simple explanation. [ male announcer ] join the nearly 7 million investors who think like you do: face time and think time make a difference.
join us. [ male announcer ] at edward jones, it's how we make sense of investing. ♪ melissa: now that twitter has filed its long-awaited ipo, the big question is, it is it too soon? the company makes no money and is losing money right now. some say it should wait ted spread its wings. other experts argue that this is the time for twitter to take flight. here to lay of both sides of the story, money manager and venture-capital list. thank you for joining us. let me start with you. should they have waited until they were profitable? >> based on all the other experiences, they should have waited until they had at least a lot more profit them what they're claiming to have now. but we will see when the stock comes out.
i am not too excited. >> i think they are right on time. multi companies which can go public any time. netscape did it, amazon to put it -- did it. melissa: wasn't that at different times? it was easy. you recorded your earnings contact about the potential profit that you would make down the road. then the engine that bubble burst. a lot of people became jaded and said when we look back at this time why did we ever support these companies that have not figured out how to be profitable yet? why would you want to invest? it seems like the time is different. why do you think it is not? >> companies are defined by user groups and user engagement. we look at twitter and the metrics and they're off the chart. for them, they can go public any time the only growth will happen in the future which is what the market wants to see. melissa: what is wrong with that
thinking? >> taking the company public now makes a lot of money for the people selling shares. i just think that we have had such experience, especially with facebook. there were not making money. the amount of money that this company is making when they use even got it just does not make sense. we will see the stock continued to go down until they can prove themselves because institutional managers, i don't buy companies that don't have a proven track record of earnings. melissa: they don't even make a profit by those standards. earnings before interest and tax, depreciation and amortization. they're losing less money. go ahead. >> not by amazon on the cable companies. they have not made a profit. i just think that profit is just one metric. you have to look at the whole picture.
these guys are fantastic presence, the leader. great group and engagement. those kinds of things are very hard to find. people will be happy. melissa: the idea of being a shareholder is that you return value. you can measure it in profit or how much the stock is gone up to and it's time you bought it and sold it. maybe if you buy the stock and it goes up, you should be happy. >> the pure example is facebook. why would you buy it as an ipo when you could buy it at 50% less after word when all of these supposedly smart money sold out. it is the public getting into this. the hula hoop in the 1960's. it could be a fad. death amazon went down, you know -- melissa: hang on. >> look back at what happened in the internet bubble in 2000. it is clear that you can have a hope for the cure for cancer and buy into that company.
i like companies that have earnings. this is an uncharted, unpredictable area. they're trying to make money off of advertising, but it is not making enough money for me to buy the stock in be excited. melissa: respond. >> profitability is part of metric, but it is not the only one. this is a company, the boston bombing, people using this, once in a generation moment to capture it. now, usage, the engagement, the profitability will come, just like profitability has come for amazon. anyone who bought the stock is sitting very happy. then. melissa: they have double than doubled and are on track this year by the financials that they released to double once again. is it not seem like they are well on their way. if you don't jump on board the could be missing a good opportunity. >> i don't disagree, but as an ipo trying to grab a stock when
they have so much that the infrastructure that they pay for, the earnings are just not going to be here to support a stock. i would wait to see the stock come out, see how it trades, buy it and then have an opportunity to look at how the earnings will play into it to add to the position. since going public, especially in technology, i think it -- melissa: it feels like deja vu. thank you so much. time will tell. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. melissa: coming up, the brand new benjamin hot off of the press. these bills have the coolest features you have ever heard of. we have it all in "spare change." i am not giving it back. fat chance. they're not getting these. you made "money" today?
and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. just pick that flight right there. mmm hmmm. give it a few taps, and...it's taken care of. this is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. you bet. now if you like that, press the red button on top. ♪ how did he not see that coming? what's in your wallet?
fancy security features. the new $100 bill is finally officially in circulation after production delays that took two years. you know it is all about the money new face lift in the flesh brought in special the federal reserve. these are cool. they let you guys to us than one cell was thinking it was going it. and it will the par with two of them. i mean, they are incredibly cool. what is your favorite feature? >> i like the blue line. it is very different. melissa: it is. images of bells on it. very 3d. >> you also have an outline portrait of benjamin franklin. if you hold it up to allied there is an extra to have extra benjamin franklin. if you turn it around, this is new, the 100 on the back is brand new. as almost a euro feel. melissa: alive.
>> and that is -- this is the most counterfeited bill in the world. melissa: why? is the standard currency. he rarely pay for illegal drugs with pesos. melissa: hundred versus some other bill that is out there. so the old one eventually gets returned. visa route in circulation. you feel privileged? >> having that nice -- the nice thing about having a bill that comes straight from the man to, chances are there is no residue on year of other people. a steady it came out, and cocaine residue. so there is no reservoir. melissa: how would you know that? >> they did. apparently they did a study on it. melissa: added not realize that
it was possible. $80 million in counterfeit bills domestically 14 and a half billion abroad is how much they think is out of circulation.lio. ninety-four and a half million dollars in security counterfeit bills. does that surprise you? >> for sure, but if you go to places like africa, the $100 bill as such a store of value, the most trusted because they have seen currencies kid devalued, incredibly quick inflation rates. when you look at the hundred this is worth a lot. melissa: i counterfeited my own bill. i mean it is identical. you can't even tell the difference. almost the same thing. my money money which is a benjamin. why when i make something less than a hundred. and then this new one. >> i think there will be a new
song called it's all about the francis's. melissa: i love that idea. give that back to me right now. seriously there is a beneficial outside. he will pistol with you. thank you. coming up next, have made "money" today. never good to put all of your eggs in one basket. his take today is all of the privy you will ever need. the answer right after this. you can never have too much "money." ♪ so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are no branches? 24/7. i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that.
a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally. always go the extra mile. to treat my low testosterone, i did my research. my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as uneected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and meditions. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarg or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about e only underarm low t treatment,
shares are more than 26 percent of the company which means a medical $17 million today, like he needs it. also making money, anyone who owns j.c. penney. the retailer finally offering good news for investors. reports that online sales in september were up more than 25% from the same time last year coupled with successful signs of reconnecting with the core customer helping boost the stock and making record money, you could not have as seller of a huge rail, 118 gary diamond. few phone bidders competed. six minutes before it went for the record 30 and and a half million dollars. i guess you need that kind of time to really mullet over before committing for such a big purchase. that's all we have for you. i hope you may "money" today. be sure to tune in tomorrow.
sweeping ever before you buy it for real. we will tell you all about that one tomorrow. i want to try it. "the willis report" is coming up next. ♪ gerri: hello, everybody. i'm gerri willis. tonight on "the willis report", the federal shutdown hitting close to home, very close to home. folks trying to buy a house being put on hold. also, buyer beware, free college scholarships that are anything but free. more fallout from obamacare. people having to buy covers it on the are want, and it is costing them a small fortune. we're watching out for you tonight on "the willis report." gerri: seen